PieFedGaming on Linux hasn't been great so far... | JayzTwoCents [27:59]
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bute69Oj87I
Follow-up video to https://lemmy.world/post/32690521
Spoiler alert: the main reason he says the experience "hasn't been great" is because shortly before posting the video his Linux install mysteriously broke and he had no idea why. Therefore, he recommended dual-booting Windows just in case.
Cue sea of comments explaining that the reason for the error he was getting was that Windows screwed up his bootloader (i.e. the problem was caused by dual-booting to begin with, LOL).
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The twist, windows updates breaks the linux boot loader if installed on the same drive
It broke mine several months back. windows is on a small m.2 500gb, my nix is on a 4tb ssd and the boot loader is there, 2 different drives with their own boot loaders. I even made it so i have to choose the drive to boot from, it still decided to kill it
It's because there, technically, should only be one EFI boot partition. Microsoft just assumes that the first EFI partition it finds is the real one and it 'fixes' it automatically.
Good for the average user who just wants their computer to turn on, but bad if you're trying to dual boot.
When I was still dual booting, I'm 100% linux now, I kept my Linux bootloader on a USB so Windows couldn't break it.
Linux bootloader on a USB so Windows couldn’t break it.
The windows drive is the first drive, so, I may try that. I am trying to move 100% but I have some software issues that require windows. And what the hell happened to make? 15+ yrs ago I used to build a lot of apps with make, always just ran and worked, now... can't get em to complete. One day, when I am ready for the abuse, I will ask for help
Make still works, though you should try to use the package manager for everything if possible.
It's likely that you're missing dependencies, package managers evolved because it is incredibly tedious to try a build, fail because of a missing dependency, so you grab that dependency and it fails to build because of a missing dependency, etcetcetc.
One day, when I am ready for the abuse, I will ask for help
In my experience the abuse isn't so bad as long as you've done a bit of research on your own and explain what you've tried so far. You'll still get some flak, but it wouldn't be the Internet without a few assholes.
Check the Arch and Gentoo wikis, even if you don't use them. Often they have good information that can point you in the right direction (obviously be extra careful because a lot of instructions are distro specific).
DreamButtI think part of the issue is people don't remember all of the little tricks they've learned over the years getting windows to work for them. So when they find Linux and have to learn a whole bag of them it feels like it's not worth it compared to something that "just works" (in their mind anyway)
Duel booting definitely isn't a viable strategy for most people imho. The best situation would be seeing crappy everyday laptops sold in bestbuy or whatever with either windows or some gaming configured Linux. People shouldn't have to think about the OS as much as possible
Prebuilts and preconfigured systems are where most people live. It's also often where most gamers start before diving into something more sophisticated for the sake of things like performance
"all the little tricks" so damn true. meet a lot of first timers that dispense with any preconceptions and won't even right click files to see what options are available
TabbsTheBat (they/them)¯\(ツ)/¯ average non-linux tech youtuber video. Something goes wrong on windows = user error, something goes bad on linux = OS fault
They also ran into the old dual-boot problem where Windows overwrites the Linux partition.
This one kinda makes me laugh tho. Other than work I don't know why people would put up with that level of bullshitery from an OS
The fact that M$ forced uefi on everyone then couldn't implement it properly on their own and does this fuckery instead, should make it very clear the quality of the rest of their work.
It's not like it was an accident or that they didn't know what they were doing. This is working as intended as far as they're concerned.
Ep1cFac3pa1mThat’s why I put my Windows install and my Linux install on separate drives. I understand that not everyone has two drives to do this, but to anyone who does, it can save some headaches.
I did that and windows still somehow fucked up my secure boot enrollment for Bazzite when I did an update.
I don’t have secure boot set up, and I’m afraid to enable it. I’m not sure what it will do to both OSes…
I turned it off after that because no matter what I tried I couldn't get my Bazzite install to boot and I ended up having to start over. It did work fine up until then, just had to enroll Bazzite which they had instructions for on their site. Not sure it's worth it to have it on though when things like that can happen, if I'd been able to fix it I probably would have kept it.
I never really even thought about it until I tried to play the BF6 beta and it told me to fuck off. I’m not crazy about kernel level anti-cheat anyway, so it might just be my excuse to keep my money instead of giving it to EA.
esteemedtogamiThis is a shame to see. I haven't watched Jay recently because I feel like his content has kind of gone the Linus route of being more entertainment focused vs a channel like GN where they have very strict and regimented testing methodology. Even as entertainment though, I think this needelessly smears Bazzite. His experience is valid, but the conclusion being "the OS's fault" or "Linux not being there yet" is kinda harmful. Yes, kernal level anti-cheat is a huge problem. But as a lifelong Windows user who myself converted last year and has not had to go back because all the games I want to play work, my experience has been that my games run better through Proton than they do natively on Windows. I hope there's a followup at some point soon where he tries again with a fresh install on its own drive. Even if the reporting isn't scientific (it doesn't have to be), I would expect his experience to be better.
All I know is I finally migrated my gaming desktop to Linux 3 years ago as my last hold out system and the only windows machine I’ve had since 2009. I haven’t noticed anything in terms of reduction in performance. Not to mention the ease of use when compared to getting Debian running on my laptop in 2009.
But more importantly to me, when I click shutdown, my machine shuts down within 5 seconds. When I start up I’m not spammed a million times over with ads and bullshit. And when I update and reboot, my updates are done, no more update, reboot, update some more, reboot, etc.
Let’s say Linux performance is worse than windows (has not been my experience), I would take that and not have all the other bullshit.
I find it very interesting that as a windows user, for years learning the OS was this collaborative effort for me and the community at large. Wed google everything, find obscure forums with equally obscure sollutions, and then eventually youtube tutorials. It was always a community educatiing themselves further in infinite directions.
Why does it seem like people dont want this with linux? I get that it might be too slow for some people and they just need something to "work". I see so many people on various comment sections saying "yeah i tried it had issues and switched back" basically the same experience that the video portrayed. Why was that same person able to suffer through windows for 25+years but this is just "too much".
I personally feel that most of the linux community has been a breath of fresh air. I feel stupid sure, but at the same time its rewarding to communicate with others and find a solution.
Even some people within the linux community feel this way, telling users to simply read the man page or the official forums to find solutions rather than teach them to use the man pages and arch wiki for example. Its honestly baffling to me on both ends.
Open question to all: what is your level of profiency? How do you learn about linux? Do you think there is a problem or is it a loud minority of users?
For me the problem is with Linux I typically have to go a lot "deeper" to solve issues I have and those issues come up more often. Yes there is documentation available but it isn't always use friendly and I tend to have to spend more time deciphering it than I would for a Windows issue where I can usually find the exact steps I need to take with a quick search (or often just poking around in menus).
I see what you are saying, but thats where the collaborative effort comes in. The only reason you are able to get to a solution so efficeintly with windows is because the base level users of windows are more educated in their OS. There is 25+ years of effort from millions of base level or above users. The fact that windows hasnt changed very much since 98 helps alot too, The solutions from all those years ago generally still apply.
Edit: also those solutions are noticed by microsoft and often get implemented directly into the OS.
All that is to say we need YOU, and users like you, to recreate the educational enviorments that seem so second nature to us with windows.
Its a very positive feedback loop we make a forum post "hey I have this issue" and either someone would allready have a solution or youd figure it out with help from the community and update the post with your workaround or fix, etc. This still exists obviously but I feel like we dont appreciate enough how many years of this had to happen before we got to the point we are now with windows.
I can understand not feeling like you have the free time for all of this effort. but to me the only reason we feel that way is because we still have windows as a fallback that works. Where as we didnt see linux or mac os as a viable alternative back then.
Open question to all: what is your level of profiency?
I'd say that I'm pretty proficient. I haven't done LFS yet but haven't really spent more than a few mins with windows except for a handful of times for about 15 years. The one time that I did so recently was to try to get a PSVR2 to work. That experience was so awful (driver disks for OS install, ADS FUCKING EVERYWHERE THAT CANNOT BE DISABLED, etc) that I quickly gave up and ended up killing the VM. I'd dinner become a hermit in a cave than abide by OS-level ads that can only be partially disabled by mucking around in the registry.
Sorry. A bit off-topic. I just really hate ads. Erm... I've done some basic tutorials on writing drivers for the kernel and have been working on reverse engineering a driver for some AR glasses, though I've not made it too far.
How do you learn about linux?
My initial learning was because I lost my XP serial in college and decided to give Linux a try. From there, a lot of my learning has been through work, which I got due to my teaching myself how to use Linux.
Do you think there is a problem or is it a loud minority of users?
It's both. I'd say that it really is going to vary based upon the sub-community. Unfortunately, there's a lot of toxicity in the gaming community at large, which, in my experience, is reflected in segments of Linux gaming communities. On the other hand, I just last night saw a bunch of people on Lemmy trying to help someone figure out how to get their new GPU to work, which was very much the opposite of toxic.
im with you man, FUCK ads, it was a major motivator moving from windows, as well as DRM and system level 0 anti-cheat.
you answered my second question but not in the way I intended, I meant to ask for more of a methodology like, do you just read the man pages? do you refer to AI? are you just full trial and error? does your work provide resources? Im asking because I generally want to see why its such an issue for people to find info, personally I use a mix of selfhosted AI and various forums and wikis. I wouldn't be supprised if some users are learning 100% through chatgpt or a single youtube channel.
Im experiencing much the same with the community it seems to be a 60-40 whether im going to find actual help or have someone just tell me to RTFM and the people who do care are absolutely kind and absurdly helpful. Your observation about the gaming focused linux community being slightly more on the toxic side is probably an apt assessment. and probably skews the initial proportion of 60-40 to the more to the toxic side where as it would otherwise be something like 80-20 helpful and toxic respectively.
you answered my second question but not in the way I intended, I meant to ask for more of a methodology like, do you just read the man pages? do you refer to AI? are you just full trial and error? does your work provide resources? Im asking because I generally want to see why its such an issue for people to find info, personally I use a mix of selfhosted AI and various forums and wikis. I wouldn't be supprised if some users are learning 100% through chatgpt or a single youtube channel.
My recommendation would vary depending on use case.
If just gaming, yeah. Your approach sounds sane.
If wanting to tinker, develop, or, honestly, even do stuff like deploying local LLMs and the like, I would strongly encourage gaining familiarity with manpages. For anytime where precision and accuracy are necessary, like low level tinkering, I don't believe that should trust LLMs. Learning how to find relevant info in manpages and dev reference materials will save a huge amount of time and heartache.
Very helpful, I do find it hard to strike a balance with the efficiency of LLMs and the lack of accurate data. While I may reach an answer, I may end up spending an equal amount of time trying to create a concise prompt versus just doing the hard research and reading documentation. I wish there was a way to know how in depth of a question im asking is. Aswell as what type of surrounding knowlege might be useful in accomplishing my goals.
Good example: I had was attempting to set up a fancy custom hyprland setup. I may have spent much less time had I not refered to AI, not to mention I gave up and went back to gnome due to frustration with the innacurate or useless data given to me by my LLM. Had i known the scale of what i was getting into Id never have refered to AI.
msmc101reminds of the linus incident. non linux youtubers need to stop making sweeping claims about linux after they fuck it up
geneva_convenienceThe Linus incident of Linus showing how bad the Linux experience can be?
What I think:
If i install Windows, latest drivers and steam I am set. No need to know what i am doing, no need to consult an expert. Just: Next, next finish, yes yes, sure, here is the soul of my first born, next yes, sure. Fuck off with that edge update. Yes next end.
The moment bootloaders etc can break, whatever the cause, is the moment you lose 60% of your users.
The moment you need to consult an expert to game you lose another 20%.
That's what he's doing. He is not catering or talking to you, the experienced Linux user, he's talking to your nephew who just finished building his first game pc. He's saying: You little guy... don't bother just yet. Get acquainted with everything and then try this.
Last time I helped my mother with her laptop Windows had ruined her updater and it took me ages to sort out. Win11 is not a user friendly OS out of the box, with horrible experience searching for fixes. On the other hand Linux has a ton of friendly people ready to help or who posts guides (with datestamps!)
But what are the odds of having these issues? It's a bit disingenuous to tell a large audience that this is what they can expect if the reality is the problems may only effect one in a thousand.
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I think people just don't remember how long it took them to "learn" windows. they were forced to because there was no viable alternative. also Im sure these tech tubers don't enjoy feeling stupid in front of their audience. I would not be surprised if comments like this are huge jabs to the ego of someone like linus or jay.
poVoqTheir critic seem fair? Sure the benchmarks are a bit unfortunate for Linux because all except Cyberpunk 2077 are games not very popular and not optimized well in Proton, but they don't seem to have selected them specifically to make Linux look bad.
And the boot error... well yes those things sometimes happen, especially when you dual boot and are a Linux noob 🤷
UlrichI didn't suggest that it was unfair. I said it was lazy and irresponsible.
How? The point is to show the average windows gamer what the experience might be like to switch to Linux. They did that.
I agree, if anyone did some surface level research they would quickly find out they should buy a second ssd if they want to dual boot Linux.
Ulu-Mulu-no-diethey should buy a second ssd if they want to dual boot Linux
It's actually not necessary, I've been dual-booting on the same system drive for years without any issues at all.
The only thing that's strictly necessary in that case is knowing darn well what you're doing.
I don't necessarily expect them to research everything, I just expect them to figure out what happened before reporting it to the public.
A few months ago, I switched from gaming on Windows to full time gaming on Linux. I have the same hardware for both but my Linux gaming experience is much jankier than it was on Windows. I have more available resources (Mint is much leaner than 11, even with cutting out Windows bloat), but games have odd hang ups and crashes that never happened before my switch.
Discord also works poorer in Linux, so I have to mess with that during gaming sessions as well. It worked much better after I removed the version I installed through snap but now I have to manually download and install an update every time it wants an update, which is frequently. Discord definitely worked better on Windows.
Also, my buddy and I built identical gaming computers at the same time and he stayed on Windows. My computer will crash or stutter on lower settings in games while his doesn't at the default detected settings, which are usually higher since I had to back mine off to ward off the issues.
That all said, it feels like I am gaming on XP in 2003-4. Games mostly work but GPU (NVIDIA) drivers are a pain in the ass and I occasionally have to do some troubleshooting to get things to work and and deal with crashes that I did not have before the switch.
I think the switch is for the best overall but I won't pretend like Linux gaming is equal (or better) to gaming on Windows. I am learning a ton about Linux but overall, out of the box, I miss Windows features and accessories and Linux needs a lot more configuration to do the same things. And even then, it is still not at the same quality for quite a few features.
GPU (NVIDIA) drivers are a pain
hmmmm i wonder what the issue could be
Nvidia gpus are in a huge amount of PCs out there right now. many users are going to make the switch to linux not knowing about the closed source drivers. yes its obviously Nvidias fault but dont be so brazenly "WELL DUH" when most people arent going to buy a new GPU just to test out an different OS. or even think to buy from a particular company due to business practices that only affect people on linux.
that being said im currently on a Nvidia GPU and for the most part Im having minimal issues. If @hobowillie needs some help I will gladly offer my limited knowledge but I understand if you've given up on Linux for the foreseeable future.
My issues are also fairly minimal. I do have crashes and stutters I did not have before switching to Linux, but they have been manageable and (mostly) isolated events.
I had issues with Warhammer 40,000: Darktide the most but the issues seem to have mostly subsided and I don't play that game all that much, anyhow. It was the one I had to really knock back settings and turn things off that were on by default to make it work reliably.
I had the most trouble with Dune: Awakening but that is a Funcom game and people were reporting similar issues on Windows to what I was having. But notably, my friend with the exact same hardware was not experiencing those issues. But we synced our settings and seem to have similar performance now that Funcom has released a handful of patches and hotfixes for the game.
I do have issues where, when powering on my computer, it will have one of my 2 monitors (usually the primary one) just flashing red, green, and blue in order on the screen until I restart it. Sometimes the screen comes up completely distorted. But my other monitor is fine and I just restart the computer and it's fine. If you have any ideas for that, I'd love to hear them. It happens maybe 1 in 10 start ups and only really inconveniences me for like 30s but it'd be nice to know why it's doing that. It seems to happen more right after driver updates.
The only thing i can think of that would cause youre monitor issue would be not having nvidia-drm enabled in the kernel params. The stutters and what not, might just be the games themselves and their compatibility with the version of proton you use. I highly recommend testing It with proton-ge if you havent before. In my experience ge(Glorious Eggroll) has the best compatibility with newer titles beyond that you can try the proton-experimental. Contrary to its name the experiemntal branch is fairly stable and fixes alot of games.
For info on getting a specific game running well or checking compatibility before you buy protondb.com is great! users upload their steam launch options for the specific game to enhance or stabilize their experience.
If youre using grub and you dont like using the the terminal or file explorer there is a gui software called grub-customizer that I use to quickly theme and edit kernel params
Note:(Its not exactly smart to use software like this because it essentially has the full control of the pc. Even if its not malicious its still not recomended because it can break things but with proper back ups etc I think its worth it)
Best of luck man! feel free to reach out again for any thing else or more indepth help.
copygirlDiscord also works poorer in Linux
Certainly not Linux' fault if developers write shitty Electron apps and then put a bunch of OS-specific stuff in it.
Also, try Vesktop? I like that I can customize my experience a little more with the plugins.
Snap
All my homies hate Snap.
I didn't say it was any fault of Linux that Discord doesn't work as well. Just that it's a fact that it doesn't work as well, regardless of the reason. It has issues in Windows, too.
I'd never heard of Vesktop. I read up on it a bit and I might swap over to it today if I have some time to work on it.
I was trying out different installation types and Discord was my only foray into Snap. Probably not using it again. haha
Discord being worse on Linux is entirely Discord's fault, there has been a thread on their forums for literal years asking for proper support. Just use Vesktop, use it on Windows and Linux, it's a direct upgrade.
I'll check out Vesktop. Will it stream my games/desktop (I use this sporadically depending on with group of friends I'm gaming with) just fine to people using Discord? Can I still use it for quests (very rarely do I do this but the occasional game pops up on there)?
Lazy reporting...
Then why post here and get clicks for their shitty youtube channel?
Because it's important to know what's being told to his very large audience. If you don't want to watch it, I provided a tl;dw in the OP.
Haven't watched the video, but I think just the conversation this created ended up being interesting to me. A handful of extra views won't do any harm.
Linux should work out of the box. Besides installing drivers no effort should be required. Especially with stuff like Bazzite which has all gaming stuff preinstalled.
This is a great and much needed video to show an actual user experience.
Its fine reporting IMO. We had so many switching to linux Ws this year it was about time someone had a subpar experience.
The other two main TL;DWs are that:
He justifiably complained about PVP games having non-Linux-compatible kernel-level anti-cheat.
His benchmark testing showed a big performance difference between Windows and Linux on his system, which has an AMD Radeon 7900 XTX. Being an admitted noob, he didn't notice that it was an unusual discrepancy and figured that worse gaming performance in Linux was "real," but a bunch of folks in the comments are telling him that RDNA 3 drivers have a known issue that means the card probably isn't running at full power and tweaking the settings can probably fix it.
To your first comment about incompatible anticheat - in must cases it's a conscious decision the publisher makes. Are We Anti-Cheat Yet it's a good resource. Personally I find my OS preventing me from being able to run a privacy invading rootkit to be a pro as well.
To the second comment, a good amount of games bench better on Linux, not sure what's going on with his system so I agree.
Definitely unfortunate to see a creator publishing content without first doing some research but that's more and my common nowadays.
This YouTuber in particular does indeed just frequently throw out statements without properly checking whether they are even true at all.
It’s a big problem with this guy for sure, but also he’s usually pretty good at admitting when he’s wrong and calling himself out on it. I wonder if he’ll look into this again to get some clarity.
I'm tired of people conflating gaming as a whole to extremely mainstream titles that fit into "online PVP with malware anti-cheat" such as Apex Legends*, *Valorant*, and *Battlefield, and then bashing Linux for "poor gaming experience".
Their experience with titles they enjoy is very valid, as valid as any other, but it's not the entirety of gaming and OS experience, at all. There's tons of games that run extremely well on Linux, even out of the box, no tinkering required, both on Nvidia and AMD hardware.
Grrr.
Personally, I find the Linux incompatibility with games that want to do shit to the kernel a plus so I don't accidentally install one without realizing it comes with malware.
I am kind of shocked about the 7900 xtx. I have the same GPU and I am getting good performance under Linux.
I did some just for fun benchmarking on Doom The Dark Ages last night and I expected Linux to be slightly slower due to the built in ray tracing but I actually got better avgs under Linux. The max frame rate was slightly higher under Windows but the lows were way better under Linux. Overall fairly close performance with a slight edge to Linux.
Maybe Bazzite is doing some magic here. What distro was he using?
Edit: I watched a bit of it, he is running Bazzite, no idea why he is seeing such crazy different numbers. I typically run Proton GE, and I assume he is running Proton Stable, so that would make a dent. People are mentioning low power mode in the comments, but I never have had any issue with that and my 7900 xtx. I haven't had to do anything weird or out of the ordinary.
I think it’s most likely due to me not playing the same games he is, Stalker 2 is basically the only he is playing that I have played in the past and I've haven't done a comparison of that game on Linux vs Windows.
Wait, I have a 7800x3D and 7900 XTX and feel like I’m getting exactly the performance I’d expect for 1440p gaming. What do I need to look into to see if I’m leaving performance on the table? I’m using Arch so latest rolling kernel drivers seem to be working fine based on my monitoring of card stats and “feel” when playing modern games. Since performance has been fine out of the box, I never suspected I could be missing something so it would be nice to verify one way or another.
This is what I had to do couple of years ago: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/drm/amd/-/issues/1500#note_1854170
It seems it has been fixed since.
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That's why Windows isn't ready for mass adoption
Average users can't even remember to set their proper monitor resolution/refresh rate in windows or in games.
Or enable XMP/Expo profiles for RAM.
Or enable RE-BAR / Hypervisor support.
Smooth brains around'.
I helped my mom with her windows install when the update half a year ago nuked keyboard support (I had to use the onscreen keyboard just to login). Before thar I had to forcefully install the correct wifi driver as well to get it working properly. This is was running from their factory installation. Stuff working correctly out of the box is a problem on both platforms.
Its not the fault of linux that the hardware manufacturer doesnt make functioning drivers tho...
Yes it is.
For the end user, if one platform has driver support and the other one doesn't, then one platform works and the other one does not.
"It's not my bug" is a thing engineers get to say to close issues on their backlog, but it doesn't magically fix the problem for the end user if the other side says the same thing (or doesn't care).
If you want people to use Linux, then Linux has to work, and that includes the third party drivers.
You're right that it's Linux's problem, but that doesn't mean it's Linux's fault.
Sure. No argument from me here.
That's just life, though. You so very often have to solve problems someone else created that get in your way but not theirs.
The user perceiving it as such, doesnt make it so. It makes a difference because if you acknowledge and make visible that it is AMDs fault, then they will be more likely to fix their shitty driver. Over all linux does have much better hardware support than windows, but with newer hardware the vendors are just oddly slow sometimes.
It does make it so.
I get so tired of shouting this from the rooftops in the general direction of FOSS devs and advocates. UX is the only thing that matters. If the user can't use it, it doesn't exist.
No, Linux doesn't have "much better hardware support than Windows". It is harder to set up and maintain, so it's worse. It doesn't matter if you can make it work. It doesn't matter if you can make things work that don't work on Windows. If I plug it in and it doesn't go, then it's worse.
This doesn't make me mad because I want to defend Windows, this makes me mad because I really, REALLY want Linux to do well, along with other FOSS alternatives to enshittified commercial software, and this is an absolute brick wall blocker for that. I don't know how FOSS spaces take away control from whiny engineers who think the current situation is functional, but somebody needs a UX equivalent of a Linus Torvalds shouting abuse at coworkers about how garbage their UX is (that everybody finds hilarious for some reason. Maybe the next step is getting some HR).
Its really not tho. Have you installed Windows 11 to a PC? Shit takes forever to remove all the ads, garbage and AI features. You literally have to edit the registry to get a usable system. Installing a popular linux distro takes like 5 minutes and then you just install whatever software you need. Any normal consumer device you plug in just works out of the box, no need to install drivers that are then again filled with bloat, ads and often even malicious code or vulnerabilities. Like ffs sake Windows 11 doesnt even function at all on a good portion of desktop computers in use today because of the TPM requirement.
Just last weekend i helped someone that never used linux before to switch. The actual install took less than 5 minutes. GPU drivers come preinstalled with the distro and work out of the box. Then another 30 minutes or so of installing and setting up all the programs they need. Another 30 minutes to copy all their old files over and explaining some general differences and thats it. Literally zero tinkering required and they are happily playing their steam games at peak performance.
Ofcourse you can get unlucky with your hardware which then involves a very annoying amount of tinkering, but when the baseline on windows is already fuckloads of tinkering then having to do tinkering sometimes is not at all a bad trade off.
Meanwhile all five generations of GCN are varying levels of abandoned officially on Windows while Mesa supports AMD cards going back to GCN1, and even more recently started to enable AMDGPU support by default on GCN1 and 2.
But yeah, as for Windows having better support, GCN1-3 are long since buried officially for that OS, and Polaris and Vega have a foot in the grave at this point as they're curtailed to security updates only officially on Windows, contrasted against Mesa still actively supporting that older hardware. Also, can't emulate RT on RX 5000-series and older cards on Windows, while you can on Linux.
And yes, I'm aware of R.ID modded drivers for those older cards in Windows, but for this context, I'm only counting official driver support.
But that responsibility is not on the OS. It's a vendor and publisher responsibility. When a game doesn't work on Windows, people don't blame Microsoft. Admittedly the game was made for Windows. But most publishers and developers will give the same response to gamers, “fuck off, the game was for Windows XP, not W10 or W11. We will remake it and make you pay $60 again to play a game you already played 15 years ago. You are on your own until then.” The vast majority of old games that are still playable, are so through an effort from third parties. Like mod developers and vendors like Valve and GOG keeping compatibility alive.
Linux, as it has become abundantly clear after the SteamDeck and Proton, already makes gaming out of the box extremely easy and entirely viable. It was the other side of the equation who were being dickheads. Or, as an example, like Epic, or Genshin Impact, who intentionally go out of their way to break Linux viability for their games with utmost hatred.
you’re absolutely right, but it’s still the gaming experience as a whole on linux. is it unfair? absolutely! but it’s still the experience
@TheBat @grue how do you define not working correctly ? ...
the GFX Card booted
the GFX Card rendered the desktop
the GFX Card rendered Games
... the only issue it wasn't as fast as possible ...
-> solution on windows -> you report and get a new driver or you get a new driver cause you don't know that you don't have the max performance
-> solution on linux -> you report and get a new driver or you get a new driver cause you don't know that you don't have the max performance
^ where is the difference ?
Oh yeah because spending half a day manually downloading and installing a zillion drivers and their bloat and rebooting between each install is peak ootb-functionality.
Meanwhile I was in CP2077 literally 5 minutes after booting a fresh install of Bazzite. On the exact same computer.
Cringe.
Which operating system works out of the box for gamers that requires zero tweaks? Is it windows? Are you sure it's windows?
More so than Linux, yeah. No system is perfect, but some are less fiddly than others.
Stuff should work correctly out of the box. That’s what average user expects. Linux is getting better at that every single day, is Windows? Linux is where the innovation is for the user, not Windows or any other proprietary, profit-seeking OS. Is it perfect? Probably won't ever be. Will it get better? That's up to us and our actions. Will windows or any other proprietary OS get better because of our actions?
Linux is getting better... but it's still nowhere near the default Windows position. A major factor in this is because development focuses on Windows for most studios, and frankly Linux is so fractured that it's difficult to make a game work on everything Linux.
*But*, that's Linux's main strength. It has a wider flexibility than other operating systems ny design. It will likely never be as "out-of-the-box" as Windows, no matter how much they sabotage themselves.
The average Windows user would have to change wildly for them to care about 99% of the changes that most power users would. You can see that in most other platforms, like YouTube, reddit, Netflix and other streaming services. They enshittify day by day and the average user shrugs and says "that's the way it is" and continues on.
@Zorque @dreadbeef
My whole comment -> check out gamingonlinux.com/2020/11/chec and the video in it.
PS: This guy really knows what he is talking. All of his linux ports are top notch and if needed he provides extremly fast updates. GLIBC updates breaking stuff ( which has happen once in alot of years) -> he got you
Most shit on windows needs adjustments out of the box to work correctly... That's just all PCs
That's the whole thing with consoles is that you don't have to do that
This is just not true of Windows. I trust you aren't talking about settings in-game, of course.
We dont actually know what was causing the performance differences between linux and windows in Jays testing. I've noticed sometimes linux is + or - 20% the performance of windows even with everything configured correct.
I dont like telling people that the preformance is going to be better than windows. I just point out that the preformance on linux is good enough to have an enjoyable experience. I'll take a 10% preformance hit to escape windows.
I've come across multiple times situations which arise from known issues leading to a worsened experience for the user.
Linux cannot solve all problems, some are difficult to solve or some require solutions which may not be possible to be resolved but in any case, what the user usually misses, is that the OS identifies these situations and inform the user.
In this case, Jay would've really been off better if the user interface was able to simply inform the user of the circumstances or the limitations that it had detected.
Thank you for including the spoiler. This tech vlogger's irresponsible headline would normally have earned a downvote from me.
So a tech youtuber didn't both to do the very basics of research before trying and failing at something? Color me surprised.
I’ve been gaming on Linux on both Deck and Desktop for a while now and I like it, but I also have to admit that it’s not without issues. Thanks to Steam and Proton, most games really do “just work”, but some, especially non-Steam games or related tools like launchers, plugin/mod managers can cause issues and may need more effort to get running, which can be difficult for people with little Linux experience. I also recognise that not everyone wants to have to deal with that and I think that’s fair. And I get the impression that many Linux gamers underestimate their own skills and how much the average non-tech person would have to learn to be able to have a similarly good experience.
Updates can also just break games. I’s happened to me with Trackmania when the stupid Ubisoft launcher suddenly wouldn’t work anymore, or Blizzard games like World of Warcraft and Starcraft 2, which started having graphical issues. Slay the Spire, after a patch, always launched on the wrong screen and refused to let me move it to the primary one.
Disclaimer: I’m on a non-gaming focused, but popular distro (Fedora).
Slay the Spire in particular has a Linux native version. You shouldn't have any issues with that.
Yeah I don't know what's up with that, but I'm not the only with this issue and funnily enough running the game with Proton fixes it.
It's not an unreasonable to think that a backup os is a good thing to have, even if in this case it's the one (most likely) being the reason Bazzite broke.
Now, I did listen to the video on my way to work, so I might have missed some details, but after checking the comments it seems like Jay's performance wasn't really where it should have been. Got to wonder if there's some funky gotcha with the gpu module or proton settings.
Also, does Bazzite default to xorg or wayland? I honestly have no idea.
Wayland
It's Wayland only, I'm pretty sure.
You can just have a thumbdrive with another linux distro and live boot with that. There really isn't a need to have another os permanently installed.
The reason he's actually giving to keep Windows is software compatibility for multiplayer games and other unsupported things. Using it as a fallback is just another reason he adds at the end when troubleshooting his broken bootloader.
He's not wrong about any of it, although for recovery you'll likely have a harder time accessing the Linux FS from Windows than the other way around, so having a recovery Linux on an external drive is good advice regardless.
Jay you mean? I replied to a comment, not the video, and the comment only said "backup os".
Still, I admittedly did not watch the video because I've stopped watching that guy years ago. He's one of the least knowledgeable "techtubers" I know. The only thing he was good at was custom watercooling stuff, but I don't know if he still does that stuff.
Lastly, while it does suck to not be able to play a game due to anticheat, the best way to solve that issue is to not play those games. The devs will propmtly find a way to make an anticheat that works on linux too if their playerbase demands it.
Going by the Steam survey Linux is like 2-3% of Steam's userbase. Not even allowing for how many of those people do have a Windows PC on the side, it's gonna be a while before you convince devs to stop having Anticheat for the sake of that market segment specifically. If they were going to balk at the losses they would have added support in the first place. Being maximalist about it is fine as a principled stance, but you don't have enough of a wallet to vote with it on this one.
The comment said "backup OS" because the video ends on a complaint that GRUB got pretty badly broken, presumably by the way they set up their Windows dualboot. I was clarifying for the record that he also suggested dualbooting for other reasons, mainly software compatibility, before things get to that point.
Again, he's not wrong on either count.
You have to start somewhere my man. Also, not trying to "convince" devs to remove anti-cheat. The point would be to have a linux compatible solution.
Again, it's not relevant that relevant how the video ends because the comment did not specifically made a reference to the video and I didn't either. You're adding context that you imagine OP was referring to but nothing of the sort was explicitly said.
The OP's comment does specifically make a reference to the video. That's all he's talking about:
I mean, it doesn't matter, he's obviously referencing things in it, if you watch the video this is obvious. He's directly responding to things said in it.
I have lots of caveats to "you have to start somewhere". You're either trying to accomplish something or you aren't. If you want to fix the compatibility issues you can either do something that works or do something that doesn't work. Doing many things that don't work doesn't necessarily get you any closer to doing a thing that does work. Instead of making an empty gesture I'd rather find an actual solution. It's not useful to take a principled stance that is not a solution to make myself feel like I'm doing something or to cope with the inconvenience.
"The best thing you can do about games not working is decide not to play those games" is great for you as a way to feel that you're not playing the games that don't work on purpose, but it won't fix the problem for people who migrate and it will do nothing to get more people to migrate despite the issue. I'm not particularly interested in posturing for the sake of it.
If only we could keep windows on a thumb drive instead
You kind of can? If you want to have an OS that you will actually use (instead of just a backup to fix your actual os) on a thumb drive, buy a usb-c m.2 enclosure, put the cheapest ssd that meets your needs in there and just install windows there.
I didn't want to commit more than a cheap flash drive. However I tried what you said since I had a m.2 enclousure laying around. I did all of this through virt-manager by passing the external device through. The installer complained when I passed the device as a usb device. I solved it by just passing device path of the external drive to the vm and the installer didn't know any better.
I don't see any other reason why this would not work for any usb device. usb flash drives as well. I might try this at some point.
The problem with normal flash drives is longevity. The OS will probably wear it out pretty quickly. As an inexpensive and/or disposable solution I guess it's fine, but it's not reliable.
Depends. I'm still keeping win10 (but haven't booted into it in months), just in case when on a game night something refuses to work on linux and I can just boot to windows and game with my friends. I'm not going to start troubleshooting then and there, doubly because in general alcohol is involved during those friday night gaming sessions.
The day for repurposing those partitions is coming closer though.
It sucks that you have to maintain it though. If you don't update from time to time, you'll have to update windows, steam, the game and probably thr gpu drivers as well.
I sincerely hope that Linux becomes at least mainstream enough to not have compatibility issues. It's still not something I would recommend to people that don't know how (or don't want) to troubleshoot issues. If installed linux on my mom's laptop she'd be constantly reaching out to figure out how to do/solve stuff.
As someone who games on Fedora as my main OS, we need to stop pretending that Linux gaming is all sunshine and rainbows.
Yes, fuck Windows, and it probably did fuck his boot loader, but it doesn't invalidate his other poor experiences he had with the OS.
Hell, I don't think that even that was necessarily an invalid experience just because it was caused by Windows. Dual booting is a thing people have to do, especially if they want to play the games that just don't work on Linux. Even if you don't like the games personally, they are huge and a lot of people want to play them. Even my main Linux group dual booted recently to play the BF6 beta.
Being elitist and calling people stupid because they had a bad experience will do nothing but hurt Linux gaming. Instead of calling JayzTwoCents stupid because he dual booted for a valid reason, explain alternatives that he could have done to prevent the issue. If we want to grow as a community, we need to provide actual helpful feedback, not by being toxic.
The real problem is people refusing to learn a new workflow. Which is why anyone would need Windows and dualbooting. Yes you can't tun every software on Linux that you can on Windows and vise versa; which is the whole damn point. There is software which lets you do the same thing just in a different way - but no one wants to explore the option, if it doesn't look and work exactly the same, people run away.
I play on Linux. I can count on one hand what games won't launch. One of them was my main game and their decision to drop Linux off a cliff last year has just grown my hatred for them and Microsoft, which I think is a much healthier and normal response than to submissively bend-over backwards and rush to install Windows which is exactly what they were counting on like we're some kind of sheep; like all the dual booters out there licking boots.
You know most people play games as a fun leisure activity. Telling them that they need to do a ton of work just to participate is going to be a hard sell except to a relatively small group of people. That is a large factor in why so many people buy consoles.
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You have missed my point. People are already putting in effort at their jobs. When they do get time to relax they don't want to be required to do a second job.
If this was a car community you would be telling me that everyone needs to know how to do their own oil changes. If this was a baking community you would say everyone needs to make their own bread. A gardening community would say growing vegetables.
These can be valuable and rewarding skills, but just because it is important to you doesn't mean it should be required of everyone.
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You do know that there is more than one other person on the internet?
Yeah, you are a hero who knows it all, gotcha.
Oh no, I have to tinker a bit to play video games, the HORROR!
Being a contrarian doesnt mean you are correct by default.
I had a problem with dualbooting windows because i always have to shutdown it using shift+shutdown, because windows kidnaps my ssd and hdd.
Also had issues with dual booting until I removed the Linux drives when installing Windows to make sure the boot partition was created on a separate drive.
Zero issues since.
Biggest downside is Windows always rebooting after updates, and if I don't sit there, it boots back into Linux as it's the first option in Grub.
At least now I have the option to fire up Windows when I can't solve something in Mint.
This is why I edited Grub to not timeout and instead wait for me to make a selection.
Can be done by running
Can also use nano or some other editor than vim too.
And changing GRUB_TIMEOUT=X to GRUB_TIMEOUT=-1 or a larger value to give you more time if you prefer to have it timeout eventually. -1 disables the countdown to auto select entirely.
And then run
To have the changes confirmed.
I do this because I use Windows about half and Linux the other half so letting me make my decision works best for me.
You can also set up Grub to default to your last boot. I forget the exact setting name, but it's a Google away. That's what the guy in the video did, too.
Also, if you're using EFI, you can use something like efibootmgr to select which entry to use on next boot up. Handy if you want to swap between OS installs without breaking out a remote KVM or hassle with GRUB monitoring all your drives.
efibootmgr(8): change EFI Boot Manager - Linux man page https://linux.die.net/man/8/efibootmgr
Honestly, the whole thing should be way more standardized, handled directly from BIOS without having to interrupt the boot and support fast booting instead of bringing up a menu every time. It's weird that crappy, cheap ARM handhelds with Android/Linux dual boot handle this better than x64 devices
On Linux you can already boot to Windows (Bazzite even installs a script that does this into your Steam library to enable easy switching from Game Mode). I am not sure if there's something readily available to do this on Windows, but either way it's a massive waste of time to boot into one thing to then boot into the other. It's even a waste of time to have to step through any menus at all to select a boot option.
I had this issue on my media pc which I wanted to be booting into mint, but grub would throw it to windows on reboots which made it super unreliable. Finally found how to edit grub (really wish there was a simple ui for it but it must be pain, I guess). Hope it helps.
Thanks mate, but the only way to fix it would be to have Windows as the prio boot OS, which just hurts too much hehe.
I'd rather sit and wait and choose it manually after updating.
the idea that you can just jump to linux with zero research needs to go
I want to make sure I am understanding what you are intending to communicate correctly. At first I thought you were basically saying, "normies need to get good". But in reflection you could be attempting to say, "Linux advocates are communicating unrealistic expectations which lead normal people to frustration and disappointment." Or is your intent something else?
I'm not OP, but I agree with the latter.
Go in expecting to need to learn some stuff, and you'll probably need to learn less than you expect. Set aside a couple hours for the setup process, you probably won't need it, but you might. Figure out where to go for help before you start. Leave yourself a backup plan in case you don't finish.
Linux is pretty easy to use these days, but it's a new thing and will take getting used to. Expect the worst and be pleasantly surprised when things work out.
This is what burned me. I was promised that Unraid would be easier than windows. Dozens of people all promising me that I would have fewer issues, and I would never need to touch the CLI, and it would take me an afternoon to set up. I have spent 200+ hours on this thing. It's finally where I want it to be, but if I never, ever touch another Linux OS again I will die happy. If I had gone in with different expectations I would have had a VERY different experience. I wouldn't have thought that every issue I faced was me being dumb. I have since learned that my experience is totally normal, and I'm pissed off at the people who lied to me.
Yeah, Linux is definitely oversold.
I get where people are coming from, if you say it has a learning curve, fewer people will try it, and a lot of those people would've had a fine experience. But those that have a rough time will convince others to not bother.
I think it's much better to undersell it and have people be pleasantly surprised.
100%. I'm not sure if it would have put me off, but I wouldn't be as bitter as I am now.
And the next part of the equation is that when you go online to ask for help, people tell you you are a noob and it's a skill issue.
Well...
What lunatic recommended Unraid to you, lol? Setting up Linux mint is easier than installing Windows. And it‘s free, reliable, open source and not stuffed full of bloatware and subscriptions. Please give it a try if you ever need a new OS
I have 15 HDDs and like unstriped RAID. My options were SnapRAID on Windows or Unraid. TrueNAS only offers striped RAID, and I am not aware of an unstriped RAID feature in Mint.
bit of both i guess? "normies need to get good" could be diluted into "do your research before going to linux", which in most sensible online discussions is already the recommended way: test things out in a VM, try out different DEs, practice configuring things, finding alternatives to your current workflow, etc etc. it's a harder sell than "just switch to linux" but IMO it's absolutely necessary
but my comment is more of a reaction to influencers not doing that at all and making le funny challenge of jumping to linux blind and breaking shit because it's good content and "trying out linux" is still trending
problem is they must be getting this idea that "linux is so easy and fun and seamless and you don't have to research anything" from somewhere, which i do think is probably way more from people in their audience hyping up linux and not necessarily the wider linux community but these voices gotta be out there
The main issue I see is that a ton of people (influencers but also users) tend to massively downplay the difficulties you might encounter when using Linux.
Every thread where someone asks whether they should try Linux is full of people claiming that it's super easy, super seamless, much less issues than using Windows, you'll never need to touch CLI and so on.
But mostly these are users that are already quite good with Linux (or users who just about managed to install Linux a week ago and haven't seen anything yet). These good users have difficulty understanding how difficult easy things are to regular users.
I encountered this when making an open source physiotherapy game console for kids with cystic fibrosis.
A big issue with CF therapy is that pretty much every therapist is doing something slightly differently, so the therapy needs to be configurable. For that I made a very simple .ini file to configure the therapy. Every single person I showed that to went into instant panic mode.
I then made a simple WebUI where people can configure the same thing, but instead of a text file there are now separate text fields for each value. And suddenly everyone gets it instantly and has no difficulty at all using it, even though all that changed was going from a text file with
key=valueto a Web UI with[label for key] [text field for value].Linux is easy if it comes pre-installed, pre-configured and with first-party hardware support both by the laptop manufacturer and each and every component in there. And first-party OS support by the device manufacturer. Like ChromeOS and Steam Deck.
If that's not the case it will be difficult for normie users. Same as installing Windows on hardware not primarily intended to run Windows or making a Hackintosh. Both of these experiences suck just as much.
Honestly, in that case, don't expect mass adoption. Simple as that.
If the idea is to keep Linux as a niche, then that's fine. But if you/the community want Linux to rival Windows/Mac, than these are the exact bullet points that must change.
A lot of Mac knowledge can translate. I learned the basics of bash on Mac OS X. I also kept my boot partitions on different drives before I switched to Linux only(I was never Windows only or even Windows Primary).
For the life of me I cannot fathom why that crowd doesn't just switch to an Apple ecosystem when leaving Windows. The entire design philosophy is intended to cater to non-tech savvy people, and to keep them that way. Not saying every Apple user is non-tech savvy, but it is built to be stupid simple to use for anyone.
This YouTuber's "*I can install Linux but abandon it because I can't figure out why it won't boot anymore*" mentality shows his own limitations.
Buy an Apple if you want to leave Windows, but have no interest in becoming proficient enough to use Linux as a main driver.
Tbf none of the points you listed are negative to me. I mean how boring would linux be if it was just go to [random site] and paste the commands into the terminal? There would be no brain training involved, no way to get better at computers.
Most people use an OS to do things, not to do an OS.
It's like with cars: There are some car nerds who tune their own engine control parameters and replace broken transmissions and engines themselves.
But for most people a car is used to get to work (or other places) not to play with them.
And while there's nothing wrong with using an OS as a hobby because you love debugging things, it would be strange to expect that everyone wants to play with an OS instead of using an OS to accomplish something.
I've been dual booting for ages without any windows-caused issues. is it windows 11 specifically that messes with dual booting or did I accidentally work around it by installing Linux to a separate ssd
Different disk is fine. Same disk, Windows is a little colonialist ass and on every update will rewrite the boot partition, screwing up Linux.
no idea if this still applies. but a long time ago i would still dualboot and thought i was smart: 2 smaller exchangable system disks (linux & windumb) + 1 large fixed data disk. during some windows updates it would make the data disk bootable and put its fucking bootloader on it.
i would get a blue screen while booting linux and the joy of removing a boot partition on my data drive.
If the data disk is configured as a primary disks and has a boot section, it will still do that. Windows wants to make sure it will load no matter which disk the PC decides to boot.
Yeah, if you've got two EFI partitions on separate disks and one is for Windows while the other is for your Linux, you're good. Windows likes to reinstall its bootloader which sets it as the default and sometimes overwrites the Linux bootloader, but not if it's on a different EFI partition, then it doesn't "know" about it.
average tech youtuber not knowing anything about tech
Hey, at least he's up-front about it and didn't type in
yes, do as I say!like Other Linus did.Complaining about Linus doing things like an inexperienced user when that is the whole point of the test is pretty stupid, honestly.
I would expect someone who knows just enough to follow troubleshooting using the command line but not knowing how powerful it can be would do the exact same thing in his position.
No. Doing things because you're inexperienced is one thing, but reading a very strongly-worded and scary message that explicitly told him that it was about to break his system and then doing it anyway is on another level entirely.
As much as I fucking cant stand him, I have to say.. in that case, Most new users would do exactly what he did.
Computer users always get hit with big ominous warning messages that amount to nothing 99.9% of the time. IIRC the reason something happened that time wasnt because Linus ignored the warning message, but because of a known bug in that version of the distro that was known about and wasnt fixed in the installer for months, until the video came out, that caused the DE to be removed when uninstalling something else.. Which is just pants on head and should have been fixed long before the video came out.
Besides, and I say this as a non-technical non-sysadmin linux user.. the overwhelming amount of tech support for linux doesnt encourage knowing what commands do, it encourages copy and pasting.. because almost all the tech support solutions I've ever found basically amount to "if you have X problem, copy Y command into terminal to fix it" with no explanation on why it works, just that it (hopefully) does.
This is yet another instance of blaming Linux for Windows' bad behavior.
He said, on a topic, about a big ominous message on linux, that would have done nothing at all.. if it wasnt for the bug known for months in the distro, that they refused to fix until it got bad press from a popular youtube video.
But yes, its windows fault. /s
Again, when you have no idea how much the command line can do, and the instructions is literally for something as basic as installing Steam, nobody would expect to nuke their DE.
You're also expecting that people should be able to parse an long ass message full of technical terms that they are unfamiliar with the first time they see it.
You guys really overestimate how competent the average person is. Linus was playing the perfect role of a "knows just enough to be dangerous" noob.
As I recall, the prompt was particularly clear about what was about to happen, hence the extra
yes, do as I say!response. Linus was either too stupid or too arrogant to realize that he was out of his depth and should consult someone with more experience.Ignorance and stupidity are very different things. This wasn't a Chernobyl situation where the emergency scram button triggered a hidden flaw. This was a "PRESSING THIS BUTTON WILL IMMEDIATELY AND DEFINITIVELY NUKE, RUIN, DESTROY YOUR SYSTEM" situation.
Most people who has never dealt with Linux will ever understand that having to type a sentence signifies that it is an important message that needs to be read thoroughly. Its more likely for them to think its just a quirk of using Linux distros, such as using sudo.
Honestly, the average person would never figured that out unless they've had experience with it before. Most people can't even read short error messages after something has gone wrong, let alone lines of text full of technical terms they have never seen before in the process of figuring out something as mundane as installing Steam.
I seriously think you guys are a bit out of touch with how non-technical people deals with their OS. The fact that you think its arrogance that made him not consult people instead of him playing the role of a non-technical person really says a lot about your own comprehension skills.
Unfamiliarity with the system should make people more inclined to read shit carefully, not less!
That's just fucking common sense, not elitism, and I make absolutely zero apologies for it.
That's not the reality and you know it. If the fact that humans are generally stupid is news to you, you are just being ignorant. And thinking that your common sense applies to everyone is what makes you elitist.
Do not pretend like Linus Sebastian is your tech illiterate grandmother. He's a clown today, but he has had experience with computers in the past. Of all people, he should have known better.
Man, you're really missing the point of that video. I guess when you want to hate on something, most people turn off the logical part of their brain.
What do you think the problem is? Grub is present so windows update cannot be the culprit on this one. Initramfs works, but the root partition is not found. Both the primary and fallback. A broken update sequence? Would be nice to get the logs
Edit: at 23:32 it says the logs have been generated at
/run/initramfs/rdsosreport.txtand that the user can save it to/bootor usb stick. Since/bootwas mounted successfully and grub was working, then the probably a broken update from bazzite.Deleted by author
I had Fedora bork up on me on each kernel update for a while and force me to rebuild... something. It's been a while, I forget what the underlying issue was.
People like to claim Windows updates are more problematic than Linux updates because they install without permission, but it's not really true. For one thing, Bazzite updates in the background just like Windows does (it just does it on user reboot as opposed to forcing a reboot).
What is your point?
That this is type of issue is relatively familiar territory, at least in Fedora-based distros. I can't promise it's the exact same known issue I encountered in the past, but it sure seems similar.
I unsubbed from that channel. Every title is clickbait. I'm not going to watch a video that is like "this is a game changer", no idea what it's about, no idea if it's relevant.
I miss the Barnacules Jayztwocents live stream days. Can't even watch Jay anymore because of the click bait, trying to appease teenage boys as a grown ass man thing he's trying to do.
YouTuber desperate for those views concocts a story that will resonate with their viewers so they will watch his YouTube ads Then carefully crafts a video that happens to tell that preplanned story that confirms his viewers prejudices. YouTube makes gobs of money. YouTuber makes some too. This is not a Public Service Announcement. Every viewers time is wasted.
I also dual boot, to separate physical drives, and the Ubuntu bootup process is constantly breaking. Every other restart I have to fix it so that it will boot. Having said that, gaming on windows was untenable. Every single game would crash between 1min and 30min, always with an nvlddmkm error code showing in the event viewer. Using a laptop rtx 4070. I tried absolutely everything to fix it. I even tried buying new ram sticks. Same error. I started to think something was wrong at the hardware level.
Since switching to Ubuntu, I haven’t had a single crash, playing every game on steam with maxed out graphics. It works perfectly. Also I’ve noticed that booting into windows sends cooling fans into overdrive while booting into Ubuntu is quiet as a mouse. Fuck windows, it’s basically spyware at this point and it doesn’t even work.
I can't get doom the dark ages to run at a playable frame rate on my Ryzen 9 / etc 5080 laptop.
Literally the only issue I've ever had with Linux gaming.
People need to stop watching this clickbaiting asshole. No shit kernel anti cheat doesn't work in Linux, it's been a thing forever, that's never gonna change. Did he use mesa or amdgpu? RADV or proprietary? Wasn't that long ago that windows had similar problems. Not surprised the windows and Nvidia shill doesn't do basic research.
I gotta admit I don't understand why the best option isn't used by default? Like when I go to download drivers off AMD/Nvidias websites there's just one option to pick for gaming, I don't have multiple options I need to research.
To be fair windows use to be this way too. You had the driver's from the manufacturer and then third party drivers. Was a big thing in the ati days.
And even in Linux you in the most strict of sense do only have 1 option for drivers if your using the manufacturers provided drivers.
The other option is "not supported" by the manufacturer. They work but frankly the only people who care are the paranoid people who take foss to a frankly unreasonable extreme.
For Nvidia you basically have the same experience on windows as Linux. You have to go get the driver's from them, and the default that comes with your OS. The windows generic or the open source for Linux. Work, but it's better to install the full driver.
For amd you just kinda default to the best on any sane distro so it's a non issue for Linux. Or for windows you just go install from manufacturer it doesn't come with your OS.
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How does that help anything? The channel is trying it out, a channel that is objectively more technically skilled than the average PC gamer. So if they can't make it work, or can't make it work seamlessly enough, then there is an issue. It reinforces the image that gaming on Linux is difficult, which frankly, it is.
His install is broken because Windows breaks the dual booting, and Microsoft has refused to fix it for a decade already..
fix what? that's a feature.
I hate that the Linux community is so quick to fall into blame mode.
That user has an issue using Linux. It's an issue that's not uncommon and it does stop that user from using Linux.
As an user, does it matter who's at fault that his Linux install isn't working as expected?
Say you buy a brand new Fiat, and 5 kilometers out of the dealership the transmission just dies.
Are you going to say "Using this car sucks" or are you going to say "The subcontractor that made the clutch mechanism in that transmission sucks"?
If your car dies, you are not getting to work today. This sucks. You don't care who is at fault, using an unreliable car sucks.
To get back to Linux: If some beginner goes through the trouble and fails, it's very little help to call them out for being a beginner or to aim the blame.
OOP's assessment is correct: Linux is nice, but there are pitfals for people who aren't versed in all the things that can go when using Linux. And yes, this one was caused by Windows, but that really doesn't help a novice user who's Linux won't boot anymore.
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Another “Yes, do as I say” “techie”. I don’t understand why they don’t just stick to their windows and drop the act of even caring enough to use anything else. Thanks for highlighting another channel to avoid.
I do a lot of sailing and none of the installers work on Linux. 100% windows and sometimes they have Mac versions.
So, I need a windows machine to do some work and transfer the installed game to my Linux machines.
The amount of work necessary is not conducive to the chill gamer lifestyle I have cultivated for 40+ years.
There are Linux repacks too
I've had to occasionally tinker to get stuff working, but I never had an installer that just didn't work.
Heroic launcher has always worked well for me in that regard.
I've only ever had one repack completely fail to install and I just got an unpacked dump of the files and installed the crack manually.
If Windows can screw up his bootloader then the problem is with the bootloader.
To clarify for people not clicking through, he didn't recommend dual booting because his install broke, he recommends dual booting to work around software incompatibilities. Which is pretty good advice, I just wish it was faster, smoother and less janky.
He absolutely did, at the very end of the video. It was in addition to other reasons, but it was there.
I mean... sure, but by that point he has recommended dual booting multiple times already. Using Windows as a recovery system is just the last reason he gives. By that point he has already suggested that people main Linux and keep a cracked/not activated version of Windows in the back for other reasons.
The OP gives the sense that it's purely circular logic: he is only recommending dual booting because his dual boot setup corrupted his bootloader. That's not what the video is saying.