PieFedHow important is a DE to you?
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After 2y on Linux I can say with full confidence that switching from GNOME to KDE (for me) is a bigger barrier than switching from Windows to Linux ever was.
I’ve tried a lot to like KDE but I just can’t. I usually see people discussing distros but I feel like picking the right DE makes much bigger impact.
I’m yet to try Hyprland though.
Considering the fact that I’m itching to get Steam Frame and VR on GNOME will likely be broken indefinitely, idk what to do.
What DE you like is very much dependant on your work flow and how well you can adjust to changes.
Personally, I love KDE Plasma. It's the right amount of "bling", bells, whistles, aestetic and settings for me. Gnome feels way to "simple" and XFCE feels reliable but old.
For me, the DE is often more important than the base underneath, but I do like my rolling release. :)
I prefer KDE. It works well out of the box and offers a good amount of customization. I tried gnome for a bit and didn’t like it.
What I like about Linux is that it’s easy to switch between DE. Just try out a few ones until you find something you like. I can recommend looking into Cinnamon (the DE of Mint).
Interesting, I feel like it is not easy at all to switch between DEs. Going from KDE to Gnome? Better rip out KDE first before you install Gnome, no way to keep them both.
I really want to try more DEs but for me it feels like work to figure out how to do it without breaking anything existing.
Generically speaking, nothing should break.
But if you want to just try out different environments without making any changes, I'd lean toward a VM for testing.
I’ve had both installed on my machine without issues. Jumped back and forth until I decided Gnome wasn’t for me.
For me it's pretty important because I want my computer to feel good to use, so I'll spend quite a lot of time making sure everything's set up the way I like it. In terms of GNOME vs KDE, I'm definitely a KDE person. Not that I hate GNOME or think there's anything wrong with other people using it, I just don't get along with it personally. For me it feels like there's too much stuff in GNOME that should be part of the core DE that relies on extensions, which tend to break with updates so there's always something that's not quite working.
I only use one extention “Dash to Dock” and I had no issue of it breaking from Fedora 38 to now Fedora 43.
On the contrary, I had to use so many widgets and addons on KDE to get a somewhat passable experience that it took me over 5h of customising and still felt not enough… also no “Latte Dock” on KDE 6 :(
Yeah I do miss Latte Dock. I've managed to get my docks pretty much back to where I had them using Panel Colorizer though.
I haven’t seen this one yet, looks definitely nicer than what you can do with the dock by default
^ All part of the fun of KDE.
So much to fiddle with.
And never perfect.
Even from a development side, not just user configuration side. They mend something and break something else. Many perfect features, but never at the same time.
I've also tried Gnome very briefly before going back to KDE. I never went deep enough to try extensions, as I'd also agree that most of that stuff should be built in to the DE, and I was annoyed by it missing these features that KDE just had out of the box. Hearing that extensions exist kinda reminds me of what I've heard about MacOS, where features that have existed on Windows for over a decade and Linux for years still require third party applications.
Back in the X11 days, I actively avoided GNOME, because Cinnamon, KDE and XFCE were so much better. I had so many issues with the design philosophy, that using GNOME felt impossible.
However, when Wayland started having some support in GNOME, I got very curious and gave it a try. Then, I also bought my first touch screen laptop, and simply had to try GNOME with it. Turns out, GNOME wasn't that bad, as long as you're not trying to tweak every little thing about it. If you're a tweaker, KDE is definitely the way to go. If not, GNOME might be tolerable or even good.
I've done so much tweaking already, that I don't really have that itch any more. Sure, some things like custom keyboard shortcuts have to be just right, but that's why you have GNOME Tweaks and the dconf Editor.
About 0.00001% of my worth as a human being. Wait till you venture out of the DE world and into the WM world. i3, BSPWM, Openbox. Go even farther and try Wayland with Sway, Hyprland, Niri, MangoWC. Make your own bars. Configure your own keybindings. Cuss a lot. Pull your hair out. Feel the pain. When you come out the other side you'll wonder why you ever bothered with so much bloat to begin with. And all of a sudden you might know some CSS and json.
Don't forget Wayfire; my windows are like my legs after trying Linux for the first time: wobbly.
i prefer WMs
I really need to give WMs a try again. It's a huge switch in Streamline, but I think that if I push through with one of the best WMs for a week or 2, I could get use to the new interactions,eventually.
Any suggestions for a long-time Gnome user that feels very comfortable with CosmicDE as it is right now?
Cosmic has a Tiling WM bundled into it. So, i think you'd prefer it, correct?
NOTE: WMs are only part of what you need for a proper GUI, you'll need to add other components to get a nice desktop GUI.
That's what I'm trying to do, have a very minimal interface and handle as much as possible with keyboard while still having a usable system with only the minimum necessary GUI. It's going to take a lot of unlearning/learning. I don't want to rely on pointer as much. And I get that this is not for everyone, I'm already test-driving Niro since it's closer to my Gnome work flow and may be a learning curve with a bit less friction that Hyprland or Swey.
I tried the last Cosmic, but found it lacks some of my wokflow parts, such as infinite auto-generated virtual desktops. Plus, Cosmic is still pointer first.
If you're looking for something minimal, Sway is the right choice. oh, and also if you come from i3 ig.
I ended up with Niri + DMS. I'll test drive it for a week or so, but if it's anything like today's experience (didn't really go too deep because, we'll, work), it looks like I'm going to like it. So far the experience is not too different than Gnome, just that my computer feels a bit snappier and the tiling, after configuring it to my taste is amazing.
That is...not mininal as you said you were trying to achieve.
But it is still quite good.
I honestly think DE is one of the main reasons people don’t switch from windows.
They just want to use what’s comfortable. The large majority of people would be fine with Linux alternatives, but they don’t want to deal with the different designs.
The slight difference in looks isn’t what’s stopping people.
I think it’s true for most people. I’m thinking of people like my mom and dad. My dad bought a whole new computer instead of just using Linux mint.
He considered it, but just bought a whole new computer after he was worried about a scam he almost fell for.
After helping hundreds of people over the years switch to Linux. The single most common factor literally is looks.
Doesn't matter if something works exactly the same if it looks even slightly different. People get angry and stubborn and refuse.
It's basically the only thing that is ever the same between helping any two people. From the most willing to learn to most unwilling.
The moment something looks different it's like people go stupid.
I've used several iterations of Gnome, several iterations of KDE, Mate, Cinnamon, Hyprland, XFCE, LXDE, Fluxbox, and several other things I can't be bothered to remember. I can be productive on any of them given some time to set them up.
I do have preferences though, and I like KDE on a laptop/desktop and Gnome on a tablet. I just wish Gnome would do something about its horrid onscreen keyboard.
The DE is very important to me, and for me that is KDE. Tbh I find Gnome horrendous to use - too locked down, too uncompromising in it's design. If you like the paradigm then I imagine it's decent - certainly looks very slick. KDE on the other hand is very flexible and has been easy to tune it to exactly what I want.
But i'd say switching DE shouldn't be a "barrier". Almost all distros support multiple DEs, and Gnome or KDE is a common choice.
When is comes to VR, you can set up an alternate X11 session which only runs Steam in gamescope mode, with minimal or no desktop environment. /usr/share/xsessions/ contains defined X11 sessions; you can manually add one that literally only launches one program via a .desktop file pointing to a script (e.g. launches steam in gamescope mode with a specified resolution). Or you can install a very minimal DE such as OpenBox or i3 and set that up to autolaunch Steam in a window or big picture/gamescope mode. This way whenever you want to VR, you log out of your Gnome desktop session and then login to your "Steam" session, and almost all resources are available for Steam and games with minimal overhead. The minimal DE route is probably the better route just because of options to get out of crashes and problem solve. Either way, this route bypasses the Gnome / and general Wayland issues with VR.
For me too!
I was used to Gnome and Ubuntu style, and since I bought a Tuxedo I use their OS with KDE, and even if I love a lots of things there is often little things like gesture that are different and I sometimes miss.
I don't care at all about DE, as long as it is not gnome. I run vanilla kde with minimal configuration. I tried many DEs through the years, tiling wm and so on.
Now I just want something that works and that I don't worry about. But gnome, I don't get it. I did try it a couple years ago and my colleagues at work use it, it feels like it is hindering me. I don't like how the application switcher works, the software launcher and so on. When I use it it feels to me I'm fighting the UI in order to do very simple things.
I feel the same way with KDE as you do with GNOME which is interesting to me because one would think that when I'm used to Windows UI the KDE would just click with me but it's actually annoying as hell to use to me.
i've tried gnome, cinnamon, hyprland, lxqt and whatnot... but everything i have settles on KDE
Every decade since 1999 (the year of the Linux desktop—for me) I spend a few weeks trying out all the hot new shit in terms of desktop environments. I'll switch to Gnome for a few days, get disappointed at how much I miss from KDE, and then try one of the newer ones like Cosmic. Then I'll play with the latest versions of the classics (xfce) and marvel that they still make you configure everything in a single file or they still lack basic shit that normal people want like a clipboard manager.
All the actually useful or just plain really, really nice/handy stuff is built into KDE Plasma. I've been using so many of those features for so long, I can't fathom having to go back to a world without say, being able to navigate the filesystems on all my other PCs via
ssh://(and other KIO workers).I remember when KDE 2.0 came out and it added support for kioslaves (now called KIO Workers) and it completely changed how I viewed desktops. That was in the year 2000. How is it that literally nothing else (not other FOSS desktops nor Windows or Macs) has implemented the same feature?
It's not just the file manager, either. I can access
ssh://(or any other KIO worker) from any file dialog! The closest thing is shared drives in Windows but even that isn't nearly as flexible or feature rich (or efficient, haha).Then there's the clipboard manager (klipper), Activities, and a control panel that lets you customize everything to extreme degrees. It even supports fractional scaling and has supported that since forever. I remember when they introduced that feature over a decade ago and it still blows my mind to this day just how forward thinking the devs were.
Monitors since forever have had a different X DPI than the Y DPI. Yet only the KDE devs bothered to both query the monitor's DDC info to figure that out and set it correctly when the desktop starts.
There's other features that drive me nuts when I don't have them! For example, the ability to disable global shortcuts on specific windows. So if I've got a remote desktop open to my work I can send Super-. (Win-.) and that'll open the Windows emoji picker in the remote desktop instead of the KDE one (locally). And it will remember this setting for that application!
I can make any window I want stay above others temporarily to take notes, enter values into the calculator, or just turn any window into something like a HUD (you can control any window's transparency on the fly!).
It even supports window tiling! A feature most people aren't aware of. Like, if you're already running KDE, why bother with a tiling window manager? You've already got it (though the keyboard shortcuts to manage the tiling layout in real time are lacking).
TL;DR: KDE Plasma is the best desktop in existence across all platforms and this is easy to prove with empircal evidence.
This comment made me go down the kio rabbit hole, how does I not know this exists? I can't wait to try some of these, even if I was using some without realising (like smb://). Browsing a filesystem through SSH or using audiocd:/ to rip a disc in the format I want... sounds almost too good to be true. KDE never stops getting better.
You didn't know for it's a tale that only the kde sith would tell you. Gnome forbids such knowledge from spreading.
I did not know this! I'll look into this and no longer will it piss me off when I tap Super in a VM to open the menu, and have to dismiss my local menu first.
That's just the tip of the iceberg of cool and useful stuff you can do with KDE Plasma (and Kwin).
Another tip: Did you know that KRunner (Alt-Space) can do unit conversions? Type Alt-Space and
10cmor something like that and it'll give you that value in inches.Another: You can bind shortcuts to mouse buttons like Ctrl-Alt-Right (click) And Ctrl-Alt-Left to say, switch desktops right/left.
You can type Ctrl-i in Dolphin to filter files. So if you're looking at your enormous downloads directory and you want to see all the .png files you can type Ctrl-i,
pngand it'll only show you files withpngin their name.KDE's "get hot new stuff" framework works with Dolphin "actions" (context menu file handlers) so you can go into the settings—>Context Menu and click on "Download New Services" to browse tons of free scripts/tools that let you do things like file conversions, write disk images to USB drives, get checksums, etc.
I actually made a personal script that converts videos to looping .webp files (or just sets WebP files to loop forever). So I can right click on a .WebP, .webm, .mp4, etc and it'll run ffmpeg on it in the background.
OK, how the hell do you do this? Because I have Ctrl+left click and Ctrl+right click set on my Mac to switch left/right between spaces/desktops, and cannot for the life of me work our how to replicate that in Linux.
The downside of KDE is the millions of options and features. It can get in the way and makes it a little harder to learn.
That said. KDE is pretty great and currently my favorite.
Yeah, a lot comes down to how comfortable the user is messing with things.
KDE starts off looking simple, then start to feel super complicated, and then goes back to seeming very straightforward - all depending on a user.
I made the same point to someone on Reddit who asked earlier today what a good distro is from swapping from macOS.
I've only been using Linux for a year or so, so I'm still very much learning how things work, but from my (limited) perspective, whether you use Ubuntu/Fedora/Arch etc... is essentially meaningless to a new user. But how you interact with it isn't.
Personally, I tried Mint first because that's the default answer, and while Cinnamon is fine, I find it too restrictive. Which makes GNOME a no-gno for me. I've tried GNOME, and I hate it. I've landed on Plasma, and I like Plasma.
And crucially, I can use Plasma on my Kubuntu machines, my old MacBook that's now running Arch(btw), and my M1 Mac mini that's running Asahi, and the experience is pretty much the same for what I do. The only difference is the command I use to update my software in Konsole.
I hate a fee things about Gnome, like how hacky it is to get any screen shot app other than Gnome's to work. Having said that, I tried KDE for a few days, then I tried to customize it to simulate my workflow I think it Gnome as much as possible. Both experiences were a complete fail. It's very hard for me to move from Gnome. Let's see what Cosmic brings to the table in 2026. It's way closer to Gnome in many ways.
As for tour question, to me the DE is 80% of the experience.
My priority is speed. I don't want a beautiful but slow DE, especially since the PCs I install linux on are usually older. That's why I usually just run openbox most of the time.
It's very important. I use KDE. Historically I've used xfce and lxde. I want something with sane defaults that will let me tweak things. I very much don't want something that wants to limit you by pretending you're on a touch device when you're on mouse and keyboard, or insists it knows better than you what you want
Very important. I spend a lot of time at my computer and my desktop environment is like my home. I want it to look in a way that I find aesthetically pleasing and it mustn't try to force me to change the way I work because some UX designer decided that their way was much better than everybody else's. Perhaps you can guess where this is going :D but I've tried to like Gnome 3 since it was first announced. I've given it multiple chances but it just doesn't work for me. It feels like they're going down the same road as all "modern" UIs, where only the most basic features are visible and everything else is either dumped into the "advanced" category or removed entirely. On the other hand, I have a coworker who only uses his PC like a tool, and he thinks Gnome is the best DE ever and can't understand why anyone would want something else.
Currently I use KDE and I'm pretty happy with it. It's highly configurable, and I've made it look and feel the way I want. I used mainly Xfce for a long time but now I prefer KDE.
Gnome 3 seems to be designed for touch screens, but it rarely is used with one.
Can't remember if it was Gnome 3 or Ubuntu Unity, but I think at least one of them had the intention of creating a unified UI for all types of devices.
GNOME and KDE have large philosophical differences and those show when you use them. I really like KDE and the way I can turn it into a tiling window manager.
Comparing a full DE to a WM is a massive difference. DEs have batteries included, you don't need to worry about which notification daemon to use, which tool can do power management or what renders your task bar. You just get every tool and it works.
I used to use i3, then migrated to sway, but the finding of tools that do X or Y got annoying after a while. In KDE everything just works together with no or minimal configuration and I get more features more easily.
What’s your preferred way to turn KDE into a tiling WM? I tried something in the past, but every time I tried to resize a window smaller than 25% of the screen, it would pop it out into floating mode.
I am still using sway because I need to know that there are no hiding windows anywhere. That shit drives me berserk.
khronkite is a great drop in kwin script that turns kde into a tiler
Kröhnkite works well. I'm using it with KDE 6 on plasma no issues.
I just tested a bunch of windows and none of them went floating, not sure about manual resizing though.
Cool. I’ll give it a go. I do often manually resize windows though, so maybe that’s where I went wrong. Thanks for the tip
There was a period when KDE 6 was new and the Wayland stuff on top of it, where Kröhnkite didn't work well. I use it since then as my daily driver and don't have issues. Off course there might be edge cases and I do not resize windows manually much, in tiling mode. But I use floating mode too and resize windows to my liking and don't have an issue like that.
BTW there is an fantastic "Dock" mode in Kröhkite, where you can define a window to be a dock that is always visible on the left/right or up/bottom area of all desktops; behaves similar to a normal dock from KDE Plasma. It's a function I never saw in any other desktop environments or tilers.
Another Kröhnkite user here. I used tiling window managers before (mainly Qtile) and cannot use a desktop without auto tiling anymore.
Kröhnkite: is THE tiling addon for KDE in my experience. There was a period when it was broken and I experimented with other solutions (Polonium worked for a while, but now that thing stopped working lol and Kröhnkite works well again). You just need to setup your keybindings and configure the limited configuration itself. You can also remove the title bars and have colored outline for active window, if that is your thing. But that is not very configurable and is a weak point in my opinion.
Karousel: a scrollable tiling window manager. If that is your thing. It worked fine, I'm just not a fan of this type.
Mouse Tiler: and then there is a new and promising addon script in the works. The main selling point was and is that tiling is done manually and with mouse only. But after lot of request the dev is working on an automatic tiling system, which puts it into my radar. And I hope it will have configurable keyboard shortcuts too. Dev says the auto tiling works already and in the next days it will be updated. Didn't try it out yet, but looks promising to me.
looks like it might be another trip down KDE tinkering lane for me! Thanks for all the tips.
Many people equate the DE with the distro they tried it on. So yeah, DE is a huge factor. There's a lot of them out there and too many people think you have to switch distribution to try a new one.
If you don't like KDE, can't you just stay on Gnome?
I've changed DE multiple times, most of them are fine. KDE is a bit obtuse but it's ultimately what I settled on because I want good built-in themes. If KDE didn't exist I'd go with Xfce, followed by LXQt (never tried LXQt though).
In terms of how important a DE is, I think picking the right distro is more important. This basically means staying away from anything Ubuntu or Ubuntu-based because in my experience those are the least stable.
I have seen people already say similar, but felt like chiming in.
The underlying djstro chosen matters less than the desktop environment or lack thereof. Well, sure you want to pick a district that aligns with your ideals and philosophies. However, as a lot of windows users delve into using Linux they see the distro as what decides the look (and feel) of their new OS.
While many learn about different DEs through different distros, I do think that the DE matters more for workflow for average users.
That being said, I jumped from windows to Arch. I didn't want to be behind on updates. I also am a tinkerer by nature. And I am in the IT industry, have been for more than a decade. So Arch felt right ti me. So I have tried many DE and always go back to KDE. I want war over any being "better." That's a personal choice sincerely.
Hyprland was fun to tinker with, and it can be pretty. But I dont care about ricing as much as many of the stereotypical Arch users.
The distro matters because some have better defaults for one DE over another.
I didn't say it didn't matter.
I don’t think I will ever be able to use anything but KDE. Tried every last one of them and this is the only one that clicked for me. On the steam frame, your interaction with KDE shouldn’t be significant since you’re mainly using this thing to play your games. So, I wouldn’t worry about it too much if I were you.
Pretty?
In my mind, I equate Gnome with OS X, while KDE is more like Windows.
I can use both competently, but I prefer KDE. Back when I used Ubuntu, I'd always use Kubuntu.
I've been using Linux for considerably longer, and I started off with things like BB4Win (meant to mimic the Blackbox window manager but on Windows) before I switched, so I was constantly trying different UI experiences and seeking out more customization options even before moving to Linux. Part of the Winamp, "skin all the things," generation. Switching DEs is a non-issue these days but I have my preferences. I loved old Gnome 2 so I found Cinnamon nice enough. xfce too. I don't dislike current Gnome but I've settled in to KDE these day. I lived in Xmonad for a while so I'll also happily take any TWM that preferably isn't it's own hobby project to configure and maintain.
DE completely depends on your workflow. The way you do things directly impacts what DEs you'll like and which ones you won't.
I'm with you on KDE: I respect it and it clearly seems to be one of the most feature-rich DEs, but I've had trouble actually using it regularly.
I have been using Cosmic DE for the last 6 months or so. I love it because it seamlessly blends tiled and non-tiled workspaces in an effective way. Part of me really enjoys the simplicity of things like i3, but part of me just wants floating windows. It fully depends on what I'm working on and sometimes just my mood, so for me, the seamless blending in Cosmic has felt perfect.
But how important is DE? Tbh I think it is the most important part of a setup, because you interact with it more than any other piece of the system.
I used to feel the same. At some point I put some time into setting up KDE how I wanted it and then I just kinda kept using it. Still use it today. I do find the editing tools of the toolbars etc to be extremely chaotic. But once that's in place it's actually nicer than Gnome imo
Gnome get's up and out of my way. 9/10.
Gnome only ever gets up to get in your way.
You need countless extensions to duct tape it to a wall to remotely make it get out of your way.
I think for most people and normal users, its the most important part of a system.
I'm a software engineer and I've been using only i3wm and sway for the past 3 years. I don't really need a DE. But when I do (very,very rarely) I always prefer Xfce, and after that, Plasma.
I currently use KDE Plasma, Cinnamon and LXQt on three different computers. On most DEs I can manage myself just well. I never liked GNOME post 2. I have recently used MATE, LXDE and Xfce
Very critical. GNOME and KDE have two very different UX paradigms.
Usually people used to Windows opt for KDE, and Mac or older Ubuntu users opt for GNOME.
The thing is though, a golden standard DE can easily be setup to act as both. XFCE is so customizable that I've seen both DE types setup as UNIX like or Windows like workflow.
I'm not sure if KDE or GNOME can do the same because I'm pretty sure they focus on a target audience.
What are your issues with KDE exactly? I always hated GNOME's lack of standard window buttons and handling multiple windows in a Mac like fashion. Also the app menu which gives me flashbacks of ChromeOS.
Still to this day I switch DEs/WMs every so often to try and find that right "fit". I think that's the biggest minor issue with Linux right now. IMHO there's not a single perfect DE. I like KDE, everything just works, BUT how workspaces/virtual desktops work with multiple monitors is an absolute pain. Yes I'm aware with the update coming this month it'll improve slightly but all I want from it is to have each monitor have it's own set of dedicated workspaces like every other WM has. KDE just won't do that regardless of the fact it's been asked for for like 20 years now.
So I constantly end up switching. Niri, Hyprland, Plasma, whatever. None of them feel perfect and they all have their deal breaker quirks that I tolerate for awhile until I just can't and end up switching. Like for example on Niri with some games when scrolling through windows and going back to the game it doesn't pick up the mouse immediately so you have to do a quick switch to either another window and back or another workspace and back. similar issue with Hyprland except it's with the keyboard instead of the mouse. Sway has similar issues. Hyprland I don't like how workspaces work with multiple monitors either.
This is just the nature of Linux overall. sometimes you just have to tolerate the minor issues for the overall better performance/features. and it doesn't just apply to DEs/WMs. there's rarely anything on Linux that is the total package and 100% everything you want. Take terminals for example. Alacritty is great, fast, responsive...doesn't do images. Kitty is awesome with images, gpu stuff, fast, smooth...doesn't work great with tmux/multiplexers cause the dev hates them. or how about editors? DOOM Emacs has all the features I could ever want...slow as shit on startup. Lazyvim is fantastic with all the plugins available...absolute pain in the ass to get working 100% on my distro NixOS. I could go on and on. none of these are absolute dealbreakers just minor annoyances that make me constantly switch things.
So I completely 100% hear you. you like GNOME, it's your preferred DE, BUT the potential issues with Steam Frame and VR are a deal breaker. And those things work on KDE BUT you're just not happy with how KDE works overall. I get it man. I'm not a fan of GNOME but I get it. I mean give hyprland a shot but try it out with the defaults first before you invest too much time into configuring it and then finding there's like one or two things that just won't work. I've done that before. spent hours configuring like Sway or something to my liking and then finding out one particular application just doesn't play well with it. It's frustrating. Good luck.
I’m also trying to enjoy KDE as everyone is praising it and Gnome lacks a tiny bit of customization.
But I really prefer Gnome and feel really different than everyone on Lemmy.
So yeah a DE is more important than the distro to me.
Gnome is polished and slick.
It's kind of like ios vs android.
I use KDE on PC that I want freedom with.
I use gnome on PC I just casually use.
What got me disappointed is that I heard so much about KDE customization and that it wasn’t buggy anymore.
I thought I’d be able to reproduce the vanilla Gnome workflow where you easily switch between workspaces. This with the advantage of things being customizable.
But it’s just too buggy and complicated for me..
I had the same experience. Switching virtual desktops is what I do constantly and KDE just behaved weirdly all the time
Same. Its the only thing i like about gnome, that buttery smooth three finger swipe on the touchpad to switch around. It made me actually understand how people can stand to work on a laptop without multiple monitors
Everything else about gnome to me just feels like they're trying to abstract away basic functionality
I’ve actualy went from 3 monitors to a single monitor with ton of virtual desktops. On KDE I felt very limited with just 1 screen though.
I treat virtual desktop as a “WM” basically … one or two windows per desktop and I switch between them rapidly either with key shortcut, mouse wheel in top left corner or combined depending on what I’m doing. And when I say rapidly I mean usually multiple times per minute… it’s just so seamless.
This does not work on KDE, it’s too slow and buggy for this workflow.
Yeah... I'm curious to see if SteamOS helps advance KDE.
I never used the virtual desktops with it.
I had set up an htpc and made some customizations to make it more TV and mini keyboard friendly.
It's an important software choice just like choosing a browser (though unfortunately browser choices are much more limited these days).
Yes I do feel like the emphasis is often wrong; choosing a distro should be about choosing a philosophy towards included packages and updates, choosing a DE is much more relevant for day-to-day user experience/workflow.
Yeah - I've even seen people recommend switching distros just because another has a different default DE without understanding that most distros let you install multiple DEs...
The differences between distros aren't as big as people make them out to be*. Mostly just installer, how packages are managed, what versions of packages you get, etc.
I use kde for my main desktop. Although I will probably switch to a window manager when I get the time to learn it.
I tried gnome once because I thought it was better for laptops (I used asahi for a little while on my macbook) Although I quickly changed to kde because I could not live with the horrible window tiling (only half and half no quarters)
I realise now you can probably fix this with extentions but I didn't get around to it.
Like others have said, it's very dependent on work flows and personal preference.
I dislike the MacOS interface. Gnome and its derivatives aren't that, but it borrows enough design cues that I don't find it intuitive. (Though I recognize why other people do find it intuitive.)
Most other DEs jive with me. I can effortlessly switch between Plasma or XFCE. I like Enlightenment and LXQT, but generally don't go for them first. Cinnamon is fine, but I like most others more.
I like to play with things. I'll get my hands on a beat-up old laptop, try a few distros and desktop environments on it, then find it a new home. Linux makes it great to experiment like that.
Huh?
How's that a bigger barrier?
You install it, you select it from your login("display") manager on next login, et viola, you're using it... and you still have access to all your prior installed programs too. No backup required, no complete operating system install, no great leap of learning an entirely different operating system paradigm, no reading new software licenses... it's just install it, and log in to it.
None at all.
Xmonad's been my fave since around 2007-2008ish.
Tried dozens of other window managers. [Special honourable mention to herbstluftwm.]
Tried over half the desktop environments too.
Much more nice without unnecessary clutter and resource wastage and faff of a desktop environment, and just a window manager.
And, as for trying new DE/WM, and needing to log out and back in to try them... even that hurdle can be eliminated. ;) There be ways to switch them without losing everything you're currently running. https://codeberg.org/Digit/wminizer
Your perspective is valid, though a lot of window manager/DE preference is completely subjective. So everyone's going to have a different experience.
Functionally, not really. I can get my work done on anything from FVWM to GNOME without a hitch.
Aesthetically, very much. The Chicago95 theme sparks joy and makes work just a bit more enjoyable. KDE and GNOME might have more creature comforts, but I will happily tolerate XFCE because it works well with Chicago95. I don't even do fresh installs anymore because of the time it takes for me to configure the visual style just right. I'll instead image from an install I've prepared on a VM.
Chicago95 definitely taps into the nostalgia for us old heads.
Distro is more an alignment of philosophy between you and the distro. Something slowly updated but really stable? Debian. Something cutting edge, but with lots of guides? Arch, etc. etc.
Any of them can pretty much run any shell, DE or WM, and as that's what you spend the most of the time interacting with, that's a more personal touch point. The distro is really just the package manager that you regularly interact with, and thats easy enough to hide behind something like topgrade.
I have only used Sway for a few years and anything else feels bloated and slow to use to me now. I spent a long time tweaking to get it how I wanted both in terms of add ons and config, then setting the keyboard shortcuts that work for me. I even have a bunch of them configured on my actual keyboard on layers to make them even easier to activate.
Its worth the investment for me as its now transparent to my workflow. I run the same config across all my machines and its been a stable config for the longest time. Long term stability is the key for me.
Interface matters a ton, of course. But once you switch between a few it gets easier, even if you retain your preferences.
When going over to Linux from Windows full time I landed on Gnome. Despite KDE being superficially like Windows, Gnome keyboard shortcuts are closer to what I’m used to, the defaults feel more sane to me, and the DE gets out of my way faster when in the terminal. I really want to like KDE but it hasn’t clicked for me.
One of the early irritants was way back in the KDE v1 days- the injection of the letter ’K’ in the app names - it harkens back to frat house level shenanigans (at least in the college I attended, except they liked the letter ’Q’). It hasn’t felt right with me.
Dash to panel and a couple of other extensions fixes the main gripes I have with Gnome DE. After testing Cosmic recently I am pretty close to that with my current configuration, and will likely try a transition that DE once it stabilizes.
I can technically manage in any DE generally - heck, I ran CDE on Digital OpenVMS back in the day and it did the job then. It a tool. The terminal is still where things happen for me.
Edits: reformatting the wall of text, added nuance.
Gnome is soooo annoying. You can't customize anything without "tweaks" that barely work.
I definitely prefer the customization of KDE.
Yeah I often wonder about this too. I think that the package manager is another major factor. But I think I might be happy with any distro running KDE. I've gotta get outside my Debian bubble to see.
Actually that's what I like about GNOME. I don't want a ton of customization options, a right-click menu with multiple dozen entries and a settings menu that needs a "table of contents".
Reduce the UI to such a degree, that you cannot remove anything more without breaking. Thats what I want.
I don't always mind not having the customization of Plasma, what I mind is needing that customizstion because the defaults are awful and GNOME's "opinionated" design to me has done clearly awful decisions on the defaults
I'm not trying to convince you to like something you don't, and KDE is a fucking great suite of software.
However, it does sound like maybe you haven't used GNOME in quite a long time. It does have various customizations built in that are available to users through the settings UI these days, and "tweaks that barely work" isn't really a representative critique of the general ecosystem anymore.
GNOME's extension platform is very mature at this point, and I've personally used a bunch of the same extensions for years now spanning like 10 major releases of GNOME without issue. Yeah, the little fly-by-night extensions that get two point releases and then are abandoned don't work forever, but that's true of a lot of old software, and is probably a good thing, honestly.
Gnome is where the heart is for me! It's just so customizable, the extension framework is such a cool concept. And yes, I know, KDE has a lot of bells and whistles, and I think think that's why I dislike it. It's cluttered, Gnome is simple. I like the polish and the smoothness, KDE is nice for people who want more but I'm happy with less. Thanks for coming to my TED talk!
Critically. Its the face of the operating system, and I'm shallow enough to put a lot of value on a pretty face
I prefer Gnome aesthetically, but I value more KDE's speed to implement gaming related features.
Try cosmic, its very smooth and just works.
I guess its more simular to gnome than to kde so you should like it.
The importance of choosing the right DE is quite low for me because, with daily use, I can get accustomed to any new environment. It’s uncomfortable at first, but it can be done and, eventually, it grows on me.
In my case, I'm used to window managers because they improve my current workflow; however, the most intuitive DE for me is GNOME. I love its gestures, aesthetics, and functionality.
Something like 4 out of 10 important for me, but 10 out of 10 if I share a computer. I keep xfce4 on my computers because I like some of the utilities that come with it by default and I'm not the only person in my home who logs in. The default setup is close to what my people expect and it can be modified easily enough.
That being typed, I use a window manager after spending years adding custom shortcuts to an increasingly modified xfce setup to match my day-to-day use patterns. I got tired of dealing with stacking windows and wanted to try a setup that tiles the windows instead. It made sense at that time to try out a window manager that came closer to what I was looking for. I still use xfce4 if I want to run an x-11 type of environment for some reason, but I'm using sway for my personal day-to-day environment. I'm willing to use KDE or GNOME if that's what is installed by default, but I'm working against muscle memory when I do so.
Super important. I do also choose a DE first and look for a distro that supports it out of the box second.
This being said, while I think Gnome looks amazing, it's whole UX is killing me. I tried it over and over again, because it looks so beautyful. But it always starts to frustrate and annoy me.
I was ling term Cinnamon user and recently switched to KDE Plasma. Luckily, as Linux users we have a choice.
Less and less, the more i deal with session and tooling issues. Considering going from XFCE to LXQT, for a start. The convenience parts are more and more things i hacked/scripted myself, after the Desktops broke because of circumstances.
And wayland on the notebook... since i don't like Gnome and KDE is too battery-sucking, that was a blank slate from start.
I need a good DE for launching apps and switching tasks. As a mouse user I found Gnome poor in launching apps. Huge mouse movements needed, and hard to lay out the launcher apps as I need them compared to Plasma. Id consider Gnome if I found a suitable replacement launcher. It would need favourites, category navigation and search.
I just wish I could have AfterStep's mini desktop pager in a modern window manager. It was so cool seeing an overview of my virtual desktops next to each other and being able to drag windows from one to the other without switching desktops.
The choice for me was something that did well in gaming. Features like good VRR support made the voice of KDE plasma the only option. I'm not bothered about the KDE UI. It is nice, and similar to windows, so ready enough to get along with.
I am monitoring Cosmic. Once it has HDR and solid VRR, etc I may try it out.
DE is very important to me, however I'm on the side of extreme minimalism with a focus on the keyboard instead of mouse. I want my graphical environment to respond instantaneously to my commands, and I don't like having to use the mouse for simple tasks like launching programs. I also use tiled layouts and multiple desktops extensively. I hate having to alt+tab to find the window I need - I want to just quickly move to the right desktop with a keyboard shortcut. I switched to i3 a few years ago and love it. I'll admit though, this is not the DE that should be advertised to new Linux users.
Extremely. I've tried KDE flavors of various distros and one thing that trips me up every single time is the workflow for connecting to my hidden WiFi network. On Gnome and Cinnamon I can do this in a few clicks from the network icon in the task bar. On KDE I always have to spend several minutes fumbling my way around the network settings before I can start using it. Every. Single. Time. I don't know why, it's like my brain just works a certain way and because this is such an early and crucial step in setting up a fresh install, I've never been able to stick w/ KDE despite all the rave reviews it receives in these types of posts.
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It is important. But I find the ones I have tried good, and would survive if I had to use either of them. I use KDE Plasma on my main personal laptop, I have Cinnamon running on a living room computer connected to my TV (not an ideal solution, but I've so far not taken the time to optimize the setup) and GNOME om my work laptop. I much prefer KDE Plasma out of them, but I like the others also.
Yes, I agree. I personally like Cinnamon and Gnome, XFce if my PC doesn't have much ram. I don't really enjoy any of the other ones.
Very important.
At this stage, I see no reason to use anything other than KDE.
DE is very important. I'm now so used to tiling that I couldn't go back to Gnome or KDE.